A Conversation with Thyra Heder

Good morning, Thyra.  I am happy to welcome you to Librarian’s Quest and to express my thanks to you for spending time with me and my readers today.  It’s been absolutely gorgeous here in southern Michigan as autumn brings in the cooler temperatures at night, clear blue skies, brisk breezes and a blanket of color in our trees.

Since the focus of our conservation today revolves around an animal companion I thought you might like to take an imaginary hike with me and my one-year-old chocolate Labrador, Mulan.  We enjoy walking through the woods, taking in the sights, sounds and scents.  So put on your comfy shoes or boots, grab a jacket and let’s get started.

Sounds great! My lab/rott mix Toby would like to follow Mulan to the stinkiest spots to roll in.

Mulan would love that! I, of course, might not be too happy with a stinky dog in the house but that's why water hoses and shampoo were invented.

In your Author’s Note at the close of the book, Alfie (The turtle that disappeared), (Abrams Books for Young Readers, October 3, 2017) you inform readers about your Alfie, the length of time Alfie has been a part of your family, your niece’s fascination with this turtle and your friend Nia’s turtle Max that seems to have an affinity for escaping.  Every time I read this book, the brilliance of two perspectives brings the story together flawlessly.  Did you always know you wanted to tell this story from both Nia’s and Alfie’s point of view?

Originally I wrote this story from an omniscient narrator and it wasn’t really working, because neither Nini (Nia’s original name) nor Alfie had much of a personality. Also, in this first idea, the turtle was gone for 30 years which ended up feeling very sad rather than fun.  I went to mope to my agent, Stephen Barr, which is what I often do when I’m stuck, and the two of us spent an hour basically just making each other laugh until suddenly one of us shot the firework of the idea of the change of perspective.  I honestly am not sure I can take credit for it, because I don’t have the memory of how it happened, but the second it was said aloud I knew it was right. All of my favorite novels involve switching character perspectives, so it became my mission to make this work in a picture book.  (In case you are interested, two of my favorites are To The Lighthouse by Virginia Woolf and Another Country by James Baldwin)

I am curious about whether you did any extra research or if it was pure observation of Alfie and Max so you could channel your inner turtle to write his point of view?

I’ve actually never met Nia’s Max! She’s just told me about his various escapes. I have followed my real Alfie around my parent's house a lot over the years, so mostly this was from memory. (Btw he really does love to hide in my mom’s shoes, get stuck under the radiator, and swim in the backyard koi pond)

How did you arrive at the name Alfie for your turtle and for the title of this book?

When I was five years old, I was obsessed with the book Esio Trot by Roald Dahl, which is about a man in love with his downstairs neighbor who is devoted to her pet tortoise, Alfie.  So for my sixth birthday, I got Alfie!

Your artwork for this book is utterly charming, elevating the text beautifully.  Did you have the text completed prior to the watercolor painting and inking?  Did the illustrations come first?  Or is it a combination of both? I am wondering about your process for this book.  

First of all, thank you! My process for every book begins with an instinct for what I want to paint, and then the writing follows as a way to justify that instinct.  It often is a painfully long process of figuring out how to construct the story with a lot of sketching of different dummies and rewriting and tearing my hair out (any of my friends will tell you that a perennial part of my writing process is wanting to throw the whole thing out).  But yes, I had finalized the text before starting to paint my images.   

However, after painting the final art for Alfie over many months, I reread it with the text and hated it.  I had spent so long creating the world in the art that when I looked at the writing again, it seemed to have zero of the same care and personality.  My editor at Abrams, Erica Finkel, is a saint.  She patiently sat with me in an empty office at 8pm before my book was supposed to be sent to the printer, and worked with me to rewrite every line of Alfie’s perspective.  For that, I am forever grateful, because the book got so much better.

You have included many wonderful extra details in your artwork?  What is one thing you hope readers will notice? (I noticed something entirely new when reading Alfie (The turtle that disappeared) again today.)

That makes me so happy! My favorite thing as an illustrator is to try to build enough into the art that those new surprises can happen.  I hope readers will notice how the walrus wears his pants.

I have an idea of why the rug pattern was chosen for the endpapers but I would love to know your reason for placing it there and for adding a portion of Alfie on the closing endpapers.

Well if I can earnestly and politely answer, “I don’t know, what do you think?” I’d love to hear your idea! To be honest, I was very stumped about the endpapers and they were due the next day and as I was falling asleep I just started talking to myself, I thought “okay, you have the book in your hand, you are looking at the cover, you open the book...what do you want to see?” and the rug popped in my head and felt good, so I did it.  I have spent many hours watching my Alfie crawl across carpets so adding him in the back came naturally and seemed to continue the story in a nice way.

It crossed my mind that the rug was a focal point for the first time Alfie and Nia were together with him roaming free. Also my thoughts on him being on the closing endpapers suggest he might be going on another adventure.

The use of a white canvas with the ink drawings of Nia and Alfie within the book and on the book case (case cover) is marvelous.  Were they always wordless and why or why not? Also, is there a particular reason Alfie is slightly airborne on the front of the book case?

Haha, I can’t help but feel that some of these questions are revealing that I sometimes don’t know why I make my own choices!  Initially I wanted the break to be two blank white pages, but, thankfully, Erica really pushed me to come up with something intentional for that moment. I knew it had to sort of exist outside of the story while relating to it, and I came across an old page of ink doodles in my studio with a little girl's silhouette and felt it click.  Alfie is floating on the case cover because it made me laugh.

I think it's going to make everyone laugh, Thyra.

Is the setting, the home and backyard, from your imagination or is it an actual place?

The setting is a mashup of my apartment in Brooklyn and my childhood home in Cambridge.

I know readers will want to know more about your Alfie, Thyra.  What kind of turtle is Alfie?

Omg, Margie, I AM NOT SURE!  We were told he was a Chinese Pond Turtle at the pet store, but he doesn’t look much like the photos.  It is actually also debateable whether he is, in fact, male.  I figure it doesn’t matter at this point? Alfie is just Alfie.

How old (approximately) is he now?

33 years young!

What is Alfie’s favorite food?

Alfie actually seems to prefer turtle food to the lettuce/carrots/guppies/crickets/grubs/hamburgers I tried to feed him when we were younger.

Thank you for chatting with me today Thyra.  It’s been a pleasure to learn more about Alfie (The turtle that disappeared), your process and the real-life Alfie.  I, and other readers too, certainly hope you have another project in the works.

To learn more about Thyra Heder please take a moment to visit her website and her blog.  You can get a sneak peek at her work space on her blog.  If you want to learn more about Alfie (The turtle that disappeared), the book, please follow the link attached to the title to read my blog post.

Also you can follow me on Facebook.com/thyrahederbooks for behind the scenes process photos and events.

Thyra Heder is the author-illustrator of Fraidyzoo and The Bear Report. In a starred review, Kirkus praised her latest picture book, Alfie, saying, "Heder takes readers on a journey about what it means to be a child with a new pet who sometimes loses its luster but never its worthiness of love." She is also an illustrator and storyboard artist whose clients include Kenneth Cole, Vogue and Coca-Cola. She graduated from Brown University in 2006 with a degree in art semiotics. She lives in Brooklyn.

Slow But Sure And Steady

When your younger sister is obsessed with turtles, they become a part of your life.  You begin to see turtles in every shape and size imaginable wherever you go; made from paper, stone, glass, wood, metal, gems, cloth, plants or a combination of materials.  No turtle is ever left by the side of the road to wander and possibly be hit by a car.  You stop and move it far away before proceeding to your destination.

You also find yourself, as an adult, turtle sitting a large box turtle when said sister goes on a trip.  Before you know it, you become attached to this guy as it follows you around the room.  And contrary to popular belief, they can move quickly when necessary.

Unlike my sister sometimes humans' interest in their turtle companions may not be as constant; having high points and low points in their friendship.  Alfie (The turtle that disappeared) (Abrams Books for Young Readers, October 3, 2017) written by Thyra Heder is a straight-to-your-heart charming story of giving and gifts.  Friendship can and does mean different things to each individual in the relationship.

On my sixth birthday, I got Alfie.

At the shop this little girl is told the turtle is about six years old, too.  They have something in common.  Alfie does not move much even when meeting all of his human's stuffed animal friends and toys or even when she teaches him her dance moves.  He is quiet when she leaves him little presents.  He seems to enjoy being inside his shell.

She continues to talk with him about her day to day activities and shares her most successful jokes with Alfie until she starts to forget about him for a little bit.  It's not until her seventh birthday she remembers him.  She is shocked to discover Alfie is missing.

Nia, as Alfie tells us, is a very special girl.  He feels calm in her home even though it

tickled my toes.

He is thrilled with all her friends and the presents she gives him.  He is determined to make Nia as happy as she makes him.  It's not until before her seventh birthday party when she is talking with him, a plan forms in his mind.  He has to find her the perfect present.

Alfie looks low and low but nothing is to be found.  It isn't until he chats with Toby, the family dog; he realizes he needs to go outside.  This is a whole new adventure filled with tricky feats, explorations and some shocking surprises.  The seasons shift.  Alfie is cold.  He still has not discovered what he needs for Nia.  A friendly snail offers advice as old as time.  It makes all the difference.


When you read the sentences written by Thyra Heder she takes you with intention into the character's point of view.  In the first part of her story the little girl is speaking.  Her observations are beautifully those of a child her age.  Her affection for Alfie is never in doubt regardless of his response.  Each part of her personality and daily activities is shared with him.

In a brilliant piece of storytelling Thyra Heder alters the point of view to Alfie.  All the things Nia talks about doing with him are seen through a turtle's perspective.  We are privy to his reasoning for the grand escape.  What he does in the outside world and the result are sheer wonder and perfectly, magically possible.  Here is a comparison of the two points of view.

I introduced him to everyone.

I taught him my wiggle dance and made him presents,
but he didn't seem to notice.


Nia taught me to dance!  I practiced wiggling inside my shell.
She gave me presents!  I had never been given presents.


Rendered in ink and watercolor all the illustrations are glorious.  On the opened dust jacket the home for Alfie stretches across the spine and to the edge of the back on the left.  There we see several stones, one partially submerged, another totally under water and one with a smiley face drawn on it.  A small seashell has been placed in his tank, too.  On the front the interpretation of Nia and Alfie looking out at readers, both through the glass but one on the outside and the other on the inside, is wonderful.  The homemade lettering made by Nia for his tank gently hangs for the title.

On the book case entirely in white we see a small Alfie in black on the right and the left.  On the first he is being held up by a balloon with the number six.  On the back he is resting on the ground.  Another balloon with a surprising number is tied to him.  The opening and closing endpapers are a close-up of the patterned rug in Nia's home.  The endpapers at the close include an additional element, hinting at Alfie's perspective.

On the title page we are brought near to Alfie as he sits on a rock.  His name hangs above him with the subtitle beneath it.  The images created by Thyra Heder for this title are brimming with delicate details.  Her pictures fill single pages, are grouped together on a single page, or span across two pages to accentuate a particular portion of the plot.  As she did on the book case, white space supplies a canvas for small black visuals at turning points.  Another important item is the heavy, matte-finished paper in this title.  This heightens the illustrative medium bringing softness to the pictures.

When the point of view in the narrative shifts so too does the illustrative perspective.  Readers will want to notice the significance of the balloons.  There is gentle humor and affection in other details; where Toby is looking in the snow and the snow sculpture Nia is making.

There are many, many wonderful images in this book.  One of my favorite pictures is when Alfie sees Nia for the first time.  She is looking through the glass with the label

FRESH WATER TURT

which is backwards to us.  Her beautiful face is framed on the right by a portion of the balloon with the number six.  Her eyes are wide and full of happiness.  Alfie has his back to us.  We only see about half of his shell.  His head is lifted and looking at this new girl.


There are those extraordinary books you love the very first time you read them.  Alfie (The turtle that disappeared) written and illustrated by Thyra Heder is one of them.  This is a book to be enjoyed for the wonderful story of affection seen from two perspectives.  It will fill your heart with total joy.  It will surely be requested as a read aloud again and again.  I highly recommend this for your professional and personal bookshelves.

To learn more about Thyra Heder and her other work, please follow the links attached to her name.  She has a website and a Tumblr account.  At the publisher's website you can scroll through interior images including my favorite one.

The Best Of Friends Forever

She stood on all four legs on the console between the seats for nearly thirty minutes.  Her body leaned into mine as I drove carefully and slowly, her head, heavy from sedation, hung over my shoulder.  From time to time she would let out a low whimper or groan.  As soon as we arrived home, I carried her into the house placing her in her bed next to my desk.  She immediately fell into a deep sleep.  How she managed to stand next to me as she always does when riding in the car is a testament to her strength.  I am humbled by her loyalty.

My sixth month old puppy, a chocolate Labrador, Mulan swallowed a glove in mere seconds after a group of disc golfers came to pet her Sunday afternoon. It will remain a mystery how it happened.  I immediately took her to the emergency room where she was x-rayed and endured an endoscopy.  That she suffered this through no fault of her own breaks my heart but once again I have learned from a dog, my dog.

I have decided to honor Mulan's steadfastness with two books about the bond between a girl and her dog written by a woman I have never met but who shares my deep love for our canine creatures.  Penny & Jelly: The School Show (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, July 7, 2015) written by Maria Gianferrari with illustrations by Thyra Heder is humorous and heartwarming.  It's friendship at its finest.

The Peabody Elementary School Talent Show was an annual tradition.
All of Penny's classmates were participating.

As soon as school was out that day, Jelly met Penny and helped her list those things at which she was most skilled.  It seemed Penny thought she was good at them but in practice a tuba really could sound awful, smashed fruit was not a good sign for a juggler, animals heading for the hills was a less-than-stellar indication of yodeling expertise, Jelly grabbing your "baton" ended a twirling session and wrapping a jump rope around your pooch pal was unacceptable.  Penny needed to find a talent and find it fast.

The twisted rope around Jelly gave her an idea.  Jelly was not happy with the results.  Agility as a ballroom dancer ended quickly.  (You don't need to hide under the bed, Jelly.)

When Penny tried to emulate Adelaide Hermann Jelly did not disappear in a cloud of ... flour.  The list of possibilities grew longer until Penny had to face facts.  After trying every single one, she was not a success at any of them.

A very dejected girl and her constant buddy hid in their sanctuary, her closet.  In no time at all Jelly had a great idea.  Like all her canine predecessors she voiced her opinion.  At the talent show a new honor was given.  Can you guess what it was?


Penny and Jelly return in their second adventure, Penny & Jelly: Slumber Under the Stars (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, June 14, 2016) written by Maria Gianferrari with illustrations by Thyra Heder.  These irrepressible and inseparable characters have a new difficulty to face.  Will a solution be found through teamwork?

"Hooray!" said Penny.
"Tomorrow is Sleepover Under the Stars Night, Jelly!"

That night Penny displayed constellations on her bedroom ceiling pointing out favorites.  They would look for these beneath a real sky the next night.  Penny's four friends were as thrilled by the sleepover as Penny when she called them the next morning.

When making a list of things to take Penny discovered a glaring predicament.  Number five was Jelly.  The sleepover invitation specifically said

(no pets allowed).

Each time she spoke to Jelly about this situation Jelly would reply

"Ruff-roo-roo.

If she couldn't take Jelly, Penny would have to make the next best thing.  This was a problem, too.  A

Paper Jelly

did not have a tongue for doggy kisses, fur for cuddling or a nose for sniffing.  Twelve more Jelly imitations were created and failed to even remotely resemble all the wonder found in the real Jelly.  Surely you too can see the problems with a Vegetable Jelly, a Pipecleaner Jelly or a Jelly Jelly.

As night settled over the neighborhood Penny needed to gather her gear and head to the sleepover, but she simply could not leave Jelly.  When your heart is in the right place, an answer will present itself.  Look, there's Sirius, the Dog Star!


With repeated readings of each book, it is abundantly clear Penny and Jelly are the kind of individuals every reader hopes will be their best friends.  Using a blend of narrative and dialogue, human and canine, Maria Gianferrari invites us to participate in the relationship between this effervescent, happy-go-lucky girl and her patient, faithful friend.  In each book Penny's thinking to herself and her lists are integrated into the story.  Each time a problem presents itself, she methodically works her way to a solution.  This girl does not give up!  Here are two sample passages, one from each book.

"Ooh! I'll be a doggy fashion designer," said Penny, "and you'll be my model!"
Penny rooted through her drawers.  
She cut.
She tied.
She painted. 
She pasted.
VOILA!
Jelly shook.
Jelly jiggled.
Jelly rolled.
Riiiip.


"Ruff-roo-roo," barked Jelly,
batting a ball of yarn.
"Yes! A yarn Jelly will be perfect!'
Penny knitted.
She looped.
She braided.
She hooped.
It sort of looked like Jelly,
but Yarn Jelly was too soft.
No click-clacking nails.
No wig-waggling tail.
A bit too frail.
This was not the real Jelly.


Upon opening the matching dust jacket and book case on both books readers are not only privy to the joy of a shared experience between a girl and her dog, but by looking to the left, on the back, we get hints of events to come.  On the first book we zoom in to see bits and pieces of materials used in crafting doggy fashion for Jelly.  On the second book it's an extension of the night scene in Penny's and Jelly's back yard.  Underneath a large tree are some other Jelly creations among invited guests. (That's all I am going to say.)  The opening and closing endpapers in book one are pale lavender.  On the opening and closing endpapers in book two we see a night sky with lines connecting the starry constellations.

The happiness continues on the title pages.  In the first Penny is standing in front of an easel as Jelly looks at her.  She is trying to think of a talent.  The cozy scene on the second title page is of Penny and Jelly lying on a blanket outside at night.  They are both gazing upward.

All the illustrations are rendered in watercolor, pencil and ink by Thyra Heder.   Her publication and dedication pages following the titles pages host a two page image closing in on the announcement for the talent show and then the sleepover.  The first is part of a bulletin board outside Penny's classroom.  The second is rolled up inside Penny's mailbox at home.  Jelly is peeking out the front window.  Penny has taped a small paw print to the mailbox.

Many of the images span two pages.  To provide pacing and show the thought processes several pictures may appear on a single page.  At times for emphasis Thyra will bring us close to the elements in the illustration.

The delicate lines, soft colors, facial expressions and body postures on both Penny and Jelly will endear readers to the story and the characters.  Penny and Jelly are portrayed both as delightfully typical and completely their own perfect individuals.  Readers will find humor over and over again.

One of my many favorite illustrations in book one is of Jelly all decked out in Penny's fabulous fashions.  It is on a single page.  She has a two-tone pink polka-dotted bow around her ears.  A boa is wound around her neck.  Two different colored socks are on her front paws.  Paper "fabric" hangs from her body.  A "dress" has been tied across her front shoulders.  All this coupled with the expression on her face will have you bursting out in laughter.

In book two one of my many favorite illustrations spans two pages.  The background is hues of blue and teal.  On the walls of Penny's bedroom constellations glow, spinning from a lamp she has in front of her on her bed.  Everything glows in these shades with sparkling stars.  Penny is sitting cross-legged on her bed pointing to the ceiling.  She is wearing lavender pajamas with paw prints on them.  Across from her Jelly is looking at the ceiling.  A couple of stars glow on her fur.


These two books, Penny & Jelly: The School Show and Penny & Jelly: Slumber Under the Stars written by Maria Gianferrari with illustrations by Thyra Heder are uplifting and utterly charming.  They clearly provide readers with the benefits of having a true friend; someone who will listen to you, offer suggestions and be the inspiration you need to solve problems.  I highly recommend both these books for your professional and personal bookshelves.  Dog lovers will read them over and over again.  Anyone who values friendship will love them too.  Laughter is guaranteed.

To learn more about Maria Gianferrari and Thyra Heder and their other work please follow the links attached to their names to access their websites.  There is a website dedicated to Penny & Jelly and their books.  You can access a Penny & Jelly Talent Show Kit here.  In 2015 the first title was highlighted at Scholastic's Ambassador of School Libraries, John Schumacher's blog Watch. Connect. Read. with a chat between John and Maria.  Maria was also showcased at KidLit 411, at The Little Crooked Cottage (actually Jelly was interviewed) and on author Tara Lazar's blog, Writing For Kids (While Raising Them) in that year.  Thyra Heder was featured at Miss Marple's Musings in the summer of 2016 with process art and an interview.  Maria and the second book were highlighted at Writing For Kids (While Raising Them), Picture Book Builders and at author Cynthia Leitich Smith's Cynsations.